Character Over Competence: The 87/13 Rule with Mack Story (Episode 98)

In this episode of Hoots on the Ground with No Bullshido on The 87/13 Rule, Adam Hoots and Mike Chiles “Chili Bro” sit down with Mack Story, a blue-collar manufacturing leader, Lean practitioner, author, speaker, and founder of Blue Collar Leadership.

Mack grew up in Tallassee, Alabama, worked in machine shops and manufacturing plants, and eventually moved from process engineering to Lean leadership. After helping one facility move from a negative gross profit margin to a 35% gross profit margin through Lean, Mack stepped out as a consultant, logged more than 11,000 hours facilitating Kaizen events, and then made a second bold pivot: from traditional Lean tools into the deeper people side of Lean.

The conversation centers on Mack’s 87/13 principle: the idea that character carries the heavy weight of our influence while technical competency is only part of the equation. Mack explains how the principle connects to older research on engineers, Stephen Covey’s character ethic, and John Maxwell’s teaching that leadership is influence. Adam and Mike push the idea into the construction world, where people are often hired and promoted for the 13% — technical skill, resume, credentials, and production — but fired, limited, or followed because of the 87%: who they are under pressure.

The 87/13 Rule conversation dives deep into:

• Why respect for people is the thickest layer of Lean
• How character development becomes leadership development
• Why people are often hired for what they know and fired for who they are
• How pressure reveals character, but also creates the opportunity to grow it
• The power of the pause button between stimulus and response
• Why leaders must stop blaming through the window and start owning through the mirror
• How daily trust deposits beat jobsite command-and-control withdrawals

Mack brings the message back to the field with practical construction examples. When the schedule is slipping, the inspection fails, change orders stack up, and the crew is waiting at 6:30 in the morning, the answer is not to throw hard hats, bark orders, or pretend to know everything. The answer is to lead people. That starts with showing up early, listening before directing, respecting the skill already in the room, and making deposits into the trust account before asking the team to follow you through chaos.

Adam, Mike, and Mack also wrestle with hiring and promotion. Mack challenges leaders to stop making competency the only door into opportunity. If character is what determines whether people can be trusted, followed, and developed, then companies have to intentionally hire for it, teach it, model it, and reinforce it. Mack shares examples of leaders who use books, book studies, and “leadership drip” habits to find and develop people who value character over title.

This episode is equal parts Lean, leadership, faith in people, and old-school blue-collar truth. Mack’s message is simple but not easy: leadership development equals character development; personal growth is the foundation; and the hardest person any leader will ever lead is the one in the mirror.

Key Takeaways – The 87/13 Rule:

• Character Carries the Weight: Competency matters, but Mack’s 87/13 principle reminds leaders that influence rises or falls on character.
• Respect for People Is the Foundation: Lean is not just tools, Kaizen events, and process improvement. The thickest layer is respect for the people doing the work.
• You Get Hired for the 13% But Fired for the 87%: Technical ability may open the door, but character determines whether people trust you, follow you, and keep you around.
• Character Does Not “Slip”: When something shows up under pressure, it is not out of character. It is a signal of what still needs development.
• Use the Pause Button: Between stimulus and response, leaders have the freedom to pause, choose, and protect their influence instead of reacting from anger.
• Look in the Mirror Before the Window: Blame looks out the window for someone else to fix it. Leadership looks in the mirror and takes responsibility.
• Make Trust Deposits Daily: Showing up early, listening first, and respecting the crew’s experience are small deposits that matter when the job gets hard.
• Leadership Development Is Character Development: Better leadership starts with personal growth, not a bigger title.

THE 87/13 RULE – EPISODE QUOTES (paraphrased):

• “Character is responsible for 87% of our influence, and competency is responsible for 13%.”
• “People are hired for what they know and fired for who they are.”
• “You gotta wanna get better as a human being. That is the root principle of character development.”
• “When it comes to character, you do not slip. Your character is what it is.”
• “Every test of character is a pop quiz.”
• “Between stimulus and response, we have the freedom to pause and choose our response.”
• “Blame looks out the window. Responsibility looks in the mirror.”
• “Most of those people do not need to be managed. They need to be led.”
• “Leadership development equals character development. Personal growth is the foundation of leadership development.”

RESOURCE LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Blue Collar Leadership – bluecollarleadership.com
• Blue Collar Leadership Free Chapters — bluecollarleadership.com/download
• Blue Collar Kaizen — https://bluecollarleadership.com/product/blue-collar-kaizen-leading-lean-lean-teams/
• Blue Collar Leadership: Leading from the Front Lines — https://bluecollarleadership.com/product/blue-collar-leadership-leading-from-the-front-lines/
• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People — Stephen R. Covey – https://www.amazon.com/dp/0743269519?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback
• Extreme Ownership — Jocko Willink – https://a.co/d/09nyAnLX
• The Lean Builder – theleanbuilder.com

GUESTS FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Mack Story | Blue Collar Leadership — Author, speaker, lean practitioner, and leadership/character development coach focused on the people side of Lean. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mackstory/
• Mike “Chili Bro” | Co-host — Lean Builder Nation voice bringing field perspective, leadership questions, and practical construction application. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-chiles/
• Adam Hoots | LinkedIn — Host/Producer of Hoots on the Ground and Lean builder focused on respect for craft and field leadership. https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhoots/

ABOUT HOOTS ON THE GROUND PODCAST:

The Lean Builder’s absolutely, positively NO Bullshido podcast. Join host Adam Hoots and his guests as they dig deep into the topics that matter most to those in the field. With stories from the trenches, lessons learned, and plenty of laughter, this podcast is for the men and women doing the hands-on work of construction.